Finding the Forrest family - using chromosome analysis

A DNA match alone doesn't prove a relationship to a particular ancestral couple, but they can provide further evidence to support a theory. In this case, a collection of DNA matches who also shared the same segment of DNA helped to identify further children of the ancestral couple and provided further evidence to confirm their relationships. 

This is my mum's chromosome map - what is a chromosome map and how did some of this information help me find the Forrest family? 

Mum's Chromosome Map from DNA Painter

Chromosome mapping is a technique used in genetic genealogy using autosomal DNA results. The goal is to identify which ancestors were the source of various segments of your DNA.  Once you discover how you’re related to someone, you can figure out which ancestor is likely to have been the source the DNA you share with them. It's an ongoing process and to date, I've mapped or assigned about 46% of mum's genome to known ancestors. It's just like a jigsaw puzzle! Each colour represents confirmed DNA matches to a specific ancestor or ancestral couple. 

Legend - Mum's Chromosome Map

Below is the pedigree chart for my maternal grandmother, Helen Forrest McDougall, using the Ancestral Trees tool from DNA Painter website. I’ve also used the DNA Filters feature to indicate those ancestors that I’ve been able to confirm through DNA analysis. 

Pedigree Chart for Helen Forrest McDougall showing DNA confirmed ancestors

Prior to DNA testing I had been unable to research my tree beyond my grandmother's great grandmother and namesake, Helena Annie Forrest. I've recently identified over 25 DNA matches back to Helena’s parents - my 4th-Great-Grandparents, David Forrest and Margaret Anderson and a further 12 DNA matches back through Margaret’s parents, James Anderson and Cockburn Smith, my 5th-Great-Grandparents, enabling me to take my research back a further two generations. 

Helena married Alexander Dougal (later McDougall), a weaver,  in Girvan, Ayrshire, Scotland in 1835. She can’t be identified on the 1841 census, but is on the 1851 census in Girvan with her husband and children. The census indicated that she was born about 1819 in Edinburgh. Her son, George, my 2nd-Great-Grandfather, was born in 1855 and his birth certificate also states that his mother was born in Edinburgh. Unfortunately, while Helena is listed on all the later census, they indicate that she was born in Girvan, which was not helpful!

Death Certificate - Eleanor Annie McDougall - 16 October 1886

Helena's death certificate in 1886 provided details of her parents, David Forrest, a shoemaker and Margaret Anderson, and confirmed that they were both deceased. 

I tested my mum at Ancestry in 2018 and also have access to two of my aunts kits, I have also tested Mum at 23andMe. Mum and her sisters results have since been uploaded to other sites including MyHeritage, Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) and Gedmatch. These sites provide access to their shared segment data with their matches, which is required to undertake chromosome analysis, and also identifies matches who may have tested and/or uploaded to the other sites. I’ve confirmed DNA matches back to Helena and her husband Alexander through 3 of their children at Ancestry and more recently at 23andMe. 

Confirmed DNA matches back to Helena Forrest and Alexander McDougall

No baptism for Helena can be found in the Old Parish Registers, but I have located baptisms for five children born to a David Forrest and Margaret Anderson between 1800 and 1807 in Livingston, Midlothian, which is about 25 km west of Edinburgh. There is a gap between the last recorded baptism for David in 1807 and Helena’s possible birth, but could they also be her parents?  

Baptisms at Scotlands People for children of David Forrest and Margaret Anderson

I decided to add the family to my Ancestry tree, also adding the Research Status tree tags Hypothesis and Unverified to warn anyone else that they were still speculative.

Using Tree Tags at Ancestry 

ThruLines™ is an Ancestry feature that groups your DNA matches under potential common ancestors, so I was excited to see soon after updating my tree, that ThruLines™ had generated a couple of potential matches, through a son named Peter Forrest. 

ThruLines™ showing potential DNA matches through descendants of David Forrest 

Like my ancestor, Helena, there was no baptism record for Peter either, however, census records indicated he was born about 1817 in Blackburn which is also near Livingston in Midlothian. His death certificate gave his parents as David Forrest, a master shoemaker and Margaret Anderson, so could he be another child of this same couple? 

Peter and his wife, Isabella Wilkie had 9 children and we now had DNA matches through three of those lines.  As a result, I added Peter and his children to my tree using the Hypothesis and Unverified tree tags while I continued searching and gathered more evidence.

Fast forward a few months and I received a message from Cathy in Canada, a 3rd cousin DNA match, who I’d contacted a few years earlier, asking me how confident I was that David Forrest and Margaret Anderson were Helena’s parents. 

I was reasonably confident as mum and her sisters shared many of the same matches with Peter’s descendants, which had provided us with tree triangulation and the family names also supported the connection. However, given the matches were beyond 3rd cousins, we really needed to be able to compare segment data. 

Although Cathy and mum shared 29 centimorgans (cM) at Ancestry - they had no shared matches, other than myself and one of my aunts. Although they both matched Cathy, neither of my aunts had any additional shared matches with Cathy either, so I was curious to know if Cathy matched with any of Peter Forrest descendants, or the matches from 23andMe. 

Mum's match with Cathy in Canada and their shared matches
Sharing preferences 

Cathy agreed to share her match list with me as a collaborator as I had offered to start grouping her matches for her. Cathy had also uploaded to MyHeritage where she and mum shared 42 centimorgans, which was consistent with Ancestry’s unweighted results.  

Comparison of Mum and Cathy's matches grouped into the McDougall and Forrest lines

Once I had access to Cathy’s match list I was able to confirm that she too shared several of the matches from the Peter Forrest line. As these were mostly below 20 centimorgans, they had not appeared in the shared match tab for any of Ancestry kits I had access to.   

I could also see we shared many other potential matches and added them to our groups for further analysis. 

I continued to build out my tree and Ancestry’s ThruLines™ updated again, identifying more matches through another two possible children of David and Margaret - Margaret and Jessie. 

ThruLines™ showing suggested matches through descendants of Margaret Anderson

Once again, no baptism records for Margaret or Jessie could be found, however both gave their father’s name as David Forrest, a cordwainer or shoemaker at the time of their marriages, and their parents were recorded as David Forrest and Margaret Anderson at their deaths, so I'm confident they are all descended from the same couple. 

Analysis of Cathy’s shared matches with mum and her sisters at MyHeritage revealed that some of the Ancestry matches had also tested or uploaded to MyHeritage. I was able to compare the shared segments for these matches and confirmed that they triangulated - meaning they shared some of the same segments.  MyHeritage add a symbol to the right of the match indicating they share triangulated segments. 

Mum's match with John at My Heritage showing triangulated matches with David and Robina

Some of these new matches, like David and Robina, take us back yet another generation, to Margaret’s parents - James Anderson and Cockburn Smith, and are descendants of Margaret’s sister, Susan.

Comparison of kits at Gedmatch between Mum, John, David and Alan 

David and John were good bridging matches between the sites, as they had also uploaded to Gedmatch, where I was able to compare the various kits with each other. 

Both David and Robina also shared their Ancestry results with me as well, which was helpful in confirming where many of the other shared matches connected in our trees. 

Mum also had known matches at 23andMe that I had already identified and painted into mum’s chromosome map. 

Mum's known matches back to Helena Forrest and Alexander McDougall from 23andMe

The chromosome map at DNA Painter allowed me to paint our shared segments from all of the sites and visually compare the overlapping segments. Below is a snapshot showing all available segment data between each of the matches with mum and her sisters back to their most recent common ancestral couple. 

Mum's chromosome map showing matches back to the McDougal/Forrest/Anderson/Smith lines

I have zoomed in on those chromosomes where we have triangulated segments. Primarily Chromosomes 4, 6 and 7.

Chromosome Map focus on David's shared segments

You may see slightly different results for the same match at different testing sites as they do test at different locations. For example, David has uploaded his Ancestry results to both MyHeritage and Gedmatch. Gedmatch reports that he shares two small segments on chromosome 4, while MyHeritage uses imputation to add to the results of people who upload results from different vendors, and in this case appear to have joined these segments together.

Chromosome Map - Chromosome 4

In relation to the shared segments on Chromosome 4, you can see that I have currently mapped them to the three sets of Common Ancestors, based on the relationship of the match to mum:

• Graeme, a 3rd cousin, once removed (3C1R), is mapped to the 2nd-Great-Grandparents, Alexander McDougall and Helena Forrest 
• John, a 4th cousin, is mapped to the 3rd-Great-Grandparents, James Forrest and Margaret Anderson 
• Alan, David and Robina, all 5th cousins, are mapped to the 4th-Great-Grandparents, James Anderson and Cockburn Smith 

However, all these segments can actually be attributed and painted to the 4th-Great-Grandparents, James Anderson and Cockburn Smith.

Chromosome Map - Chromosome 6

While, Chromosome 6 can be attributed to the 3rd-Great-Grandparents, James Forrest and Margret Anderson. 

I have also asked Robina if she would consider uploading to Gedmatch, as I am sure my mum shares this segment with her and that there is an anomaly at MyHeritage, as Robina shares this segment with my aunt, my sister and my niece. 

Thrulines™ showing suggested matches through descendants of James Anderson

Through collaboration with David and Robina and sharing our Ancestry results with each other we've now also been able to build and confirm our trees back further. Mum's Thrulines™ has identified a further 9 matches back to the next generation - James Anderson and Cockburn Smith, through their daughters, Susan and Isobel. 

While Thrulines™  are great for providing hints as to how we connect with some of our matches, I use a spreadsheet for tracking all our known matches and also use a programme called GDAT (Genealogical DNA Analysis Tool) to analyse matches further. 

The What Are The Odds tool (WATO) at DNA Painter a simple way of visualising matches across the different platforms and it’s also an easy way to share information with others working on the same families. I'm also now adding a link to the privatised WATO tree to the profiles for the Common Ancestors in my Ancestry tree.  

WATO tool used to track confirmed matches

I would love for more of our shared matches to upload to sites with a chromosome browser. I know we have inherited additional DNA through other segments from these couples. My Auntie Irene doesn’t share these segments on Chromosome 4 or 6 with any of these matches that I've used in this analysis, but she is a match with several other matches on these lines at Ancestry - so it must be on a different chromosome/s! 

Many thanks to Cathy, David, Anne, Robina and Nicolette for sharing their Ancestry results with me.

Using DNA tools to solve a genealogical mystery.

I’ve been working on my family history for nearly 40 years and have an extensive family tree.

Like many, I have a few brick walls and hoped that DNA would help progress some of those lines.

I’m fortunate that I’ve been able to test both my parents, so am able to focus on their results and I'm using my Dad, Colin's results in this blog.

What was my DNA Goal?

Ancestry DNA match

Dad has 28 matches in the 3rd cousin range at Ancestry and I was able to place all of them in our tree. All but 2 of these matches are on his paternal line.

However, once I got to the “4th cousins” range I started to have quite a few unknown but still reasonable sized matches.

Dad’s highest unknown maternal match, Penny, shared 55cM across 5 segments and was in the 4-6th cousin range and they had 8 shared matches. Of course, very few had trees!

So, who is Penny? Who are this group of unknown matches and who are our shared ancestors?  Penny doesn’t match with either of dad’s other “close” maternal cousins.

To answer these questions, I used a variety of DNA tools.

The Leeds Method

Example - The Leeds Method

I had tried the Leeds Method, a process where you divide your matches into four coloured quadrants, generally representing each grandparent line. It’s not completely accurate 100% of the time, especially when you are dealing with more distant matches, intermarriage and/or endogamy.

In summary:

• on a spreadsheet, you list all of your matches through at least third cousins
• then check each match to see who you match in common with them
• colour code the results, in columns
• The result is that each colour should represents a grandparent

As you can see, I actually went beyond the third cousin limit, as I was focusing on dad’s maternal side and these shared matches with Penny, and I had noticed another group of matches appeared, that overlapped with some already in Penny’s group.  

On reflection, this is very similar to doing Ancestry’s coloured dots - but they were not available when I I did this!

Manual Clustering

Manual clustering of Shared Matches at Ancestry

I did some manual clustering of these matches using those from the “Shared Matches” tab for each match at Ancestry and also the In Common With or “ICW Report” available from DNAGedcom and placed them into a grid in a spreadsheet to compare who matched with who. I focused on the orange and yellow group from the Leeds spreadsheet and found a further group of smaller matches.

Auto Clustering

Auto Clustering report from DNA Gedcom

Auto Clustering organises your DNA matches into shared match clusters that likely descended from common ancestors. Each of the coloured cells represents an intersection between two of your matches, meaning that both individuals match you and each other.

Each colour represents one shared match cluster. Members of a cluster match you and most or all of the other cluster members.

I ran the Auto Clustering tool that is available through DNAGedcom which is known as the Collins’ Leeds Method. This presented me with a very similar group of matches to those using the Leeds Method and my own manual clustering, showing 3 distinct groups but with some overlapping matches that you can see in the grey boxes.

You can access other Auto cluster tools through Genetic Affairs, My Heritage and Gedmatch. 

There is also a free tool available called Shared Clustering which you can download to your desktop.

One of these matches, Rob, had a tree and was in dad’s Thrulines™ as a descendant of Dad’s 3 times great grandfather, James Cooper. 

ThruLines™  

Colin's Thrulines for his 3 x great grandfather, James Cooper

Thrulines™ uses Ancestry trees to suggest how you may be related to your DNA matches through common ancestors.

When I looked at dad’s Thrulines™ for James Cooper, there were in fact another 4 matches who all appeared to be descendants of Richard Cooper, a brother of dad’s 2 x great grandfather, Anthony.  These were much smaller matches and I may never have come across them as they would be too small to appear in any of dad’s shared matches.

Note, originally these matches would have appeared in Thrulines™ with “dotted” lines around their boxes (like the box for Eleanor) as I did not have all their lines in my tree at the time. Since I’ve now added them to my tree you can see they now appear as solid lines around each person. 

Pedigree Chart for my grandmother, Esther Rose Lillian Rake

The above image was my tree at the time I started this review of matches, showing the Cooper line back from my paternal grandmother, Esther through her father, Arthur Samuel Rake, his mother, Sarah Ann Cooper, her father Anthony Cooper and his parents, James Cooper and Sarah Martin. 

A Thrulines™ icon for a person in your tree indicates you may have DNA matches that are also related to this person.

If you don’t have any ThruLine icons on display, you may need to click on the DNA Discoveries button on the left, select the person/kit, which will then update your tree with any Thrulines™ for that person's ancestors.

What did I already know?

Ancestry Profile for my 3 x great grandfather, Anthony Cooper

I knew that Anthony Cooper and his brother, Richard had both been born in Oxford, the children of James Cooper and Sarah Martin who had married in 1808. I had also found baptisms for two sisters, Sarah and Amelia. I had no further record of the family until Anthony married Fanny Yeeles in 1842 in Southwark, London.  I had also found Richard’s marriage and his family on census records, however no further record of their parents, James and Sarah or either of their sisters. 

So now it was a matter of confirming these Thrulines™ hints and contacting all these shared matches and hoping for some replies to see how they connected back to the Cooper’s.  

I was in luck.  

I heard back from two of the matches fairly quickly, including the manager of Penny’s kit. Both were keen to try and work out our connection and although they both had reasonable trees, we couldn’t see anything obvious initially. 

Penny’s kit was managed by Jordan, her future son in law, and he also managed her two children’s kits who were also shared matches. While we both had Cooper’s in our trees, we could not place Penny’s family, the dates/locations did not work. 

Nancy, the other match who replied, was in Canada and she had multiple unlinked trees. However, based on a shared match, she was able to determine which of her lines we matched, but her tree stopped at her great grandparents who were born in London and immigrated to Canada. This was however promising as we knew our Cooper’s had moved from Oxfordshire to London.

Quick and Dirty (Q&D) Trees

Q&D Tree

I started by building a Quick and Dirty Tree for Nancy’s grandmother, Dora. Her parents were Edwin Covey and Catherine Clements. While the name Clements was not in my tree - it did ring a bell. 

Catherine Clements was born in 1857 the daughter of Valentine Clements and Catherine Hurley. I found Catherine Hurley’s baptism in 1831 and her marriage in 1846, both in the parish of St John, Horsleydown confirming her parents were John and Sarah Hurley. 

1851 Census - Paradise St, Rotherhithe, Surrey

As I was building Nancy’s tree and reviewing some of the records. I also noticed that at the time of the 1851 census, Valentine and Catherine were living at 84 Paradise St. 

Hmmm….that’s a familiar address. 

Birth Certificate - Sarah Ann Cooper - 1851 Rotherhithe, Surrey

It is where Anthony’s daughter, Sarah Ann Cooper, dad’s great grandmother was born in 1851.

So I started to examine the various documents I already had on this family and noticed:

Marriage Certificate - Anthony Cooper and Fanny Yeeles - 1842 St John Southwark, Surrey

John and Sarah Hurley were the witnesses at Anthony’s marriage to Fanny Yeeles in 1842.

Marriage Certificate - Thomas Richard Rake and Sarah Ann Cooper - 1868 Rotherhithe, Surrey. 

Catherine Clements was a witness at Sarah Ann Cooper’s marriage in 1868. 

This John and Sarah Hurley seemed to be popping up everywhere!

Census records

1851 Census - Paradise St, Rotherhithe, Surrey

I then looked for John and Sarah Hurley on census records and noted that they were also living nearby at 86 Paradise St in 1851, John was born in Ireland and Sarah's birthplace is noted as Islip, Oxford! 

Further research revealed that Amelia Smith who was also residing at 84 Paradise St in 1851, was Amelia Cooper, having married James Smith in 1836. Witnesses at their marriage were also John and Sarah Hurley! 

So who are John and Sarah Hurley? 

I found John and Sarah Hurley, along with Dennis Hurley, Thomas Hurley, Catherine Hurley and Anthony Cooper - all living together in Paradise St at the time of the 1841 census!

My theory is that Sarah Hurley is Sarah Martin - wife of James Martin, mother of Anthony, Richard and Amelia. I’m not sure what happened to James, but Sarah appears to marry or have a relationship with John Hurley (I haven’t been able to find a marriage) and they have a further two children, Thomas and Catherine. 

I had previously found a baptism for Sarah Martin at Islip, Oxfordshire, and now based on the census, these other records, and DNA, I’m confident that this relates to Sarah and can now take her line back a further generation by confirming her parents as William and Ann Martin.

Sarah Hurley aged 66 (wife of John) of Paradise St was buried 13 June 1852 at St Mary Rotherhithe. John Hurley appears to “marry” again as he is in later census with a new wife, Mary.

Parish Register records - Oxfordshire

I also subsequently found the baptism for Sarah’s first husband, James and was also able to take the Cooper line back a further three generations through various parish register records in Oxfordshire.

Updated Family Tree

Updated Family Tree

This is our updated family tree back from dad’s great grandmother, Sarah Ann Cooper.  

You can see Thrulines hints (blue icon) on many of her lines. 

Updated ThruLines™

Updated ThruLines for Dad through Sarah Martin 

This image shows Dad’s updated ThruLines™ for Sarah Martin - he now has 16 confirmed matches, through three of Sarah’s children. 6 of these are through Anthony (which is our line) and there are now 7 matches on Richard’s line and we have 3 through their half sister, Catherine Hurley’s line.

Confirmed DNA Matches

Confirmed DNA Matches

I have since heard back from some of the other matches and others I have been able to build out their trees, so Dad now has over 20 Confirmed DNA matches at Ancestry on this line - including Penny!  

This image shows how each of these matches fit into the tree back to Sarah Martin and shows how many centimorgans they each share with dad.

So how did Penny fit into the tree? As it turned out, after working together with Jordan, sharing our DNA matches, building trees and using the What are the Odds "WATO” tool at DNA Painter, he discovered that her Cooper’s were on her maternal line and had nothing to do with the Cooper’s in our tree. They were just there to confuse us! 

Penny is a 4th cousin once removed on her paternal line, being a descendant of Anthony’s brother, Richard, through his daughter, Henrietta. 

Nancy, our other helpful match is a half 4th cousin, through Anthony and Richard’s half sister, Catherine Hurley. 

So for now, while we have tree triangulation, unfortunately, none of these matches have uploaded to
any of the sites with a chromosome browser...so that’s the next goal for this group - to compare the shared segments!
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The above was presented as a webinar to members of the Society of Australian Genealogists DNA Intermediate Research Group on 16 May 2020.